Irrational Vent!

[vaxjedi]

Why is it that almost all of the resources for respite and help (individuals and organizations) are evangelical Christian? Are pagans just not all that charitable?

I can't count the number of times we've followed up on respite providers to find out that regular prayer to Jesus is part of their program. To quote one: "We play, and pray, and since songs of praise to Our Lord, and have a wonderful time together!" I am not looking for Sunday school or for my daughter, and I really don't want to deal with my daughter being taught that her parents need to be 'saved', nor with the possibility that a provider might decide that we are a danger because we are pagan.

Okay, done with my rant.

Comments

[jennkitty.livejournal.com]

at first read, my initial thought is that i personally don't know any rich openly pagan folk. dunno if it's the mindset, or the lack of acceptance, or simply the root of the word pagan, but most seem to not have a large nest egg to work from, in my personal experience. so no, not lack of charity, but lack of perch from which to offer it. also, why need religion enter into respite at all, xian or otherwise?

can't there just be good secular care?

(i understand your frustration, though 1 level removed)

[vaxjedi]

Why does religion need to enter into it? Mostly because it's already there.

We haven't been going out to look for pagan respite, or any faith-based respite. But we have repeatedly seen this be a core tenet of what we have found. Not just compassionate people of a particular faith, but rather support that includes evangelism as a part of it.

The fact is (and this may be unkind and/or unliberal of me) that I don't want to have to deal with an evangelical mindset being taught to my obsessive and single-minded daughter with whom I cannot explain my position to.

The question is, why can't there be more good care without a doctrinal price tag attached? (maybe thats what you mean by secular)

[jennkitty.livejournal.com]

exactly. secular. "Not specifically relating to religion or to a religious body." i can understand not wanting to deal with the evangelical mindset, but it would almost be preferable if *noone* approached respite by including religion or faith, but simple common moral tenets.

and in the same respect that christians (fundamentalist, outspoken, or other) can and do respond to paganism in a negative fashion, it makes sense that you don't want evangelical pap shovelled into Mouse.

i think that made sense, and made noises in the direction my brain is going.

that said, i tried to picture you reasoning religion with her. not gonna happen. her logic is hers alone, but sound.

From where I'm sitting...

[arib.livejournal.com]

There are probably fewer pagans, and they probably have access to fewer resources.

(The shelter I work in is next to, and used to be run by, a huuuuuge Catholic church)

Re: From where I'm sitting...

[silenceleigh.livejournal.com]

Plus, never doubt the financial power of a group of people who a) have a tithing culture b) tend to gather in large numbers and c) really, really, really want to be seen as good people so they can get other people to believe the same way they do.

Pagans are not exactly...organized, as such. Plus, we don't have a tithing culture, and most of us aren't evangelical.

Re: From where I'm sitting...

[eleri.livejournal.com]

That's a big part of it, I think. Paganism desn't seem to have the value of serving others that the big 3 have. Serve the earth, yes, be intertwined, yes, but I don't see a lot of help they fellow man in action.

This isn't to say that pagans don't care for others, but as far as the organized aspects of paganism are concerned, it isn't a focus.

Re: From where I'm sitting...

[vaxjedi]

well, yeah. I think there is a cultural (sub-cultural) difference. Christianity (and Judiasm - lot of Jewish hospitals out there, for instance) have a very strong community focus. Neo-paganism is very individual-focused, and often seems to empahsize personal responsibility over community-responsibility.

I do think you have to add into consideration that neo-pagans are misfits, generally speaking. A lot of people come to neo-paganism because they don't fit very well into mainstream religions. It's much less likely that these people will be in positions of power or affluence. I think it's also why you see a lot of cross over with neo-paganism and other fringe cultures - fandom, kink, polyamory, GLBT, etc.

Re: From where I'm sitting...

[vaxjedi]

well yeah. it's hard to have charitable organizations when there just aren't many organizations of any type.

I hadn't thought about the tithing culture. Good point.

[mabel-duck75.livejournal.com]

Christian organizations in general have a tithing culture (as already mentioned) and a huge, well-established infrastructure. (A lot of evangelical orgs don't have a huge amount of money per se - but some have access to cash through the sponsoring denomination or orgs such as Focus on the Family).) Also, "spreading the good news" through works and words is a big part of evangelism, since a number of conservative Christian orgs have finally realized that they won't win converts by simply preaching at people. There has to be some sort of a carrot to attract families/individuals who mightn't otherwise be receptive to their message.

It's a big problem.

It's also irritating to see that more progressive Christian denominations (e.g., the UCC, some wings of the Episcopal Church) just aren't providing the kinds of social services that their conservative evangelical brethren are providing. Certainly they have access to the money and the infrastructure, and often they profess interfaith, multicultural, and/or humanist values. It almost seems as if one can't get progressive, tolerant values and a strong community focus in the same religious organization - and that's sad. (Or, if one can get these things, the money and infrastructure aren't there.)

Good luck finding respite care for Mousie.

Nothing to do with vents

[woosi.livejournal.com]

Where'd you get your LJ picture? Do you have it larger. I've been looking at it for a while and just realized what it is and love it.

there, that's for the venting. I've noticed the same thing. Years ago when I was considering adopting kids, many of the agencies were only looking for christian homes. hrumph!

Re: Nothing to do with vents

[vaxjedi]

The picture is by Jim Warren (http://www.jimwarren.com). I love his stuff.

Re: Nothing to do with vents

[vaxjedi]

Oh, and I like your icon as well. But I know exactly where that comes from ;)