yet another magick question

[vaxjedi]

Neo-pagans call elements at the cardinal directions. Why?

What is the purpose? Does it have a magickal purpose? Does it actually map any thing, that is, does element-to-direction mapping actually tell us anything more about the elements or the directions? Or is it just a mnemonic for the elements, since there are four of them and four directions?

Comments

[zaratyst.livejournal.com]

I was talking about this recently with silenceleigh She stated that group rits were weird for her because her directions and element maping is completely different. I will see if she can post and explain her view, it was interesting, even if I coudl not wrap my brain around it. In my view, it's just a map, and the idea there there are 4 directions is just something we've learned as well. There could be 20 directions if our compasses were set up differently. I think of south as being fire because that is how I learned it when I was first reading Pagany books. I came to visualize it that way, and now it would be hard to move it because they are connected for me. I expect, however, that any way you conceptualize it would work.

[elf]

For brit-trad Wicca, it's a way of "anchoring" the circle, like putting down pegs to hold a tent. It secures the ritual space (which is "between time & space") with some connection to the real world, the world of 4 elements. It ties those 4 elements to 4 directions because "front, back, right, left" are the four obvious spacial areas for humans; it uses NESW because those tie into the physical world.

[vaxjedi]

so in that setting, there is no reason for any particular position for the elements, just that they are there, no?

[elf]

The position of the elements ties to British Isles lore & history (and I'm sure you've seen explanations of the placement of the elements; I'd rather not write an essay about it.)

Each tradition that uses 4 elements/directions/guardians has its own reasons. The witchcraft traditions have a lot in common, so the reasons are similar, and may start to sound the same if you haven't really studied them.

They are all, from an "objective" stance, arbitrary. They are each part of a particular "grid" or "filter" that one uses to perceive the world & sort the primal chaos into a usable form. No "grid" is more "true" than any other... but some are certainly more useful, and some are incompatible with other grids, so it's important to find one that actually functions for you. (Or whoever the postulant is.)

So there is no "real" reason for tying the elements to those particular directions... except that the rest of the cosmology of the tradition ties in with that placement, and the magick learned in the tradition works with energies arranged in that way, and so on. That's what a lot of the eclectic "do whatever works for you" books gloss over--that traditions are kept a certain way because all the pieces fit together, not because "it's always been done this way."

Swap two elements, and the tools associated with those elements have also moved, which changes the balance of energies on the altar--which is a microcosm of the universe. Swap the elements associated with two tools (air/fire, wand/athame) and the other two also shift in meaning and use.

Any set of element/direction/tool/whatever correspondences can work... but if you change the pieces around, you're building from scratch, and that's a lot more work than learning a proven effective system.

[zaiah.livejournal.com]

Lest forget, within and without..

[vaxjedi]

Well, there is that, yes :)

[mariste-me.livejournal.com]

Hay! You know vaxjedi? It's me, mamagaea! shh. don't tell anyone.

[zaiah.livejournal.com]

He is Mine, silly.

[mariste-me.livejournal.com]

Where do you live? I thought you lived in Oregon somewhere and he lives in WA. I know him and mousie and Eleri. Or are you just being silly and facetious?

*grins*

[zaiah.livejournal.com]

..the laying claim knows not distance.. ;)

..perhaps further explanation should be left to the party in question.

Re: *grins*

[eleri.livejournal.com]

*falls over giggling*

[zaiah.livejournal.com]

*tugs her hair*

[silenceleigh.livejournal.com]

For me, there are natural associations, but they're not exactly the same as most folks who've learned their stuff with other humans use. Note that I was a pagan for about eight years before I read a book about it, or realized there were other people whose beliefs sort of corresponded. (How I learned this stuff is a long post that probably ought to go elsewhere. :)

The planet is a body, curled suspended in space, hurtling forward in a dance of momentum, spin, and gravity. The element earth is inwards, towards the center and the heart, the superliquid rock that swirls in tides and waves and eddies.

The element air is outwards; towards space, towards the places where one escapes the gravity well and travels in the silent dark.

The element fire is spinwards, the active movement of the surface of the planet towards the sun.

The element water is awaywards, against the direction of spin, the cold and the deep that resides in the night side of the planet.

Translated to a human body, then, if one is facing north, air is up, earth is down, fire is west, water is east. Another translation from that one, if you're going to be boring and use a flat compass: air north (or up), earth south (aka down), fire west, water east.

Outwards, inwards, spin, away; these are the only directions I can reliably tell, and the reason why I have a terrible time with the normal compass directions, and maps of any sort, because as symbols they're awfully...parched, is the best way to describe it. Drained of all life, of everything that makes a place what it is.

This is....not particularly useful in group rit. I've been more or less solitary all of my life, and solitary I am very likely to stay.

For me, the directions give me the correct way to face when I am addressing the cardinals; would you talk to someone with your back turned to them? I find the "space that is out of time and place" idea of traditional Wicca to be interesting, but not particularly useful; the idea of my rits is that I am centered in the middle of things, calling what I choose to call the attention of things both much bigger than I am and that don't really think like we think of thinking. The purpose of rit is to be amazingly, blazingly, present.

Like others have said, it works differently for different people. I'm an outlier, as a general rule. :)

[vaxjedi]

The correspondence makes a lot of sense to me; more so than other's I've seen, which seem to be arbitrary or based off of local geography.

It seems that the 4 element system is incomplete when corresponded to any directional system, as there are always six directions to deal with.

[mariste-me.livejournal.com]

There are always 6 directions to deal with. That is why usually, when calling circle, not only do you call in the four directions, you also recognize "As above, so below" which recognizes up and down, universe and center.

As for why the four directions are called, I have always felt that it is completely geographical to determine which element is honored in which direction. If you were in Chile, for example, would you really call south fire since Antarctica is in that direction and it gets colder the further south you went? And if you were on the east coast, would you really consider east to be air when the Atlantic Ocean is in the east?

Even though alchemically speaking the four directions are honored as east-air, south-fire, west-water, and north-earth, I feel that you need to be completely aware of your geographical situation to assign the elements to the compass directions. Here in the Portland area, the ancient alchemical correspondences work well because we have the Pacific to the West, heat to the south, cold to the north, and the Gorge winds to the east.

Does that help at all?

[queenofhalves]

the ones we use fit the british climate. americans use them just 'cause it's nice when a bunch of pagans get together to be doing things sort of the same way. north it gets colder, south it gets harder, west is the ocean, east is the rising sun.